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Discussion Forum
Started by John H at 01 Jun 2010 5:22 PM. Topic has 6 replies.
  
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 01 Jun 2010, 5:22 PM
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John H
Joined on 27 May 2010
Posts 1
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Are predators to blame for declines in songbird numbers ?
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If predators were to blame for the demise of songbirds, songbird numbers would have declined long ago before there was any human interference. Introductions like the grey squirel may have a marginal effect, but they are generally controlled by game keepers.
Humans can easily upset the balance in nature by unwittingly trying to control a predator which keeps others under control. i.e. persecuting the Goshawk which controlled the Sparrow hawk and others which prey on smaller birds. Humans are by far the worst offenders of bio-diversity on the planet.
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02 Jun 2010, 1:44 PM
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alauda26
Joined on 10 Jan 2006
Oxfordshire
Posts 81
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Re: Are predators to blame for declines in songbird numbers ?
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Did you mean to post this as part of the earlier thread on this subject?
I wouldn't necessarily disagree with your main point, but I would disagree that grey squirrels are 'generally controlled by game-keepers'.
Personally I am less interested in what caused the decline in some of our farmland birds, and more interested in what needs and can be done to reverse it!
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04 Jun 2010, 8:38 PM
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Ian Gould
Joined on 20 Dec 2005
Huntingdon
Posts 68
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Re: Are predators to blame for declines in songbird numbers ?
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It disappoints me when a respected organisation such as the GWCT does a thorough investigation and demonstration of the benefits of predator control, as they have at Loddington, and this then gets ignored by those that do not wish to acknowledge the clear evidence provided by the study.
By all means have an "evidence-led" approach to policy, but at least have the good grace to acknowledge all the evidence, not just that which backs up a one-sided view.
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07 Jun 2010, 11:21 AM
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mike.mcdowall
Joined on 03 Mar 2010
E.Lothian
Posts 29
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Re: Are predators to blame for declines in songbird numbers ?
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As a farmer I read the Loddington stuff with great interest - but couldn't decide what action to take. The study was seriously flawed in that it lumped together far too many predator species in the managment program. It is not responsible to go out and control all those species, when we have no idea which are having an important effect and which are not.
One reason for this is pure self interest. Why should I go out and try to exterminate all the crows when they appear to spend so much time and effort removing slugs, wireworm and leather jackets ? Slugs are the UKs no.1 arable pest. We need proper evidence of what to do before I will expend a lot of energy slaughtering everything the GWCT considers might be a problem.
So GWCT, lets have a study that separates out the species effects, and looks at the side effects. Once we have fuller information, we can make a balanced judgement on what is desirable rather than slaughtering easy scapegoats.
Mike.
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07 Jun 2010, 11:54 AM
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Ian Gould
Joined on 20 Dec 2005
Huntingdon
Posts 68
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Re: Are predators to blame for declines in songbird numbers ?
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Mike makes a very good point and I believe that there is quite a bit of information about species that are responsible for the most predation. I went to a few GWCT meetings about the work at Loddington and Royston, and foxes were always high on the list of repeat offenders, but the pattern of predation varied depending upon the time of year.
Perhaps the GWCT could put a summary of the results on this site for further discussion.
Ian
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24 Jun 2010, 4:16 PM
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richardwinspear
Joined on 09 Nov 2005
Posts 131
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Re: Are predators to blame for declines in songbird numbers ?
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The RSPB produced a review of all the research into the impacts of predation on bird populations a few years ago. this can be downloaded at http://www.rspb.org.uk/ourwork/science/predationreport.asp
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25 Jun 2010, 2:19 PM
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farm-advice
Joined on 09 Nov 2005
Posts 473
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Re: Are predators to blame for declines in songbird numbers ?
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since the research review carried out by the RSPB, the most significant research on this issue was conducted by the British Trust for Ornithology, funded by SongBird Survival. The results of this study can be found at http://www.bto.org/news/news2010/marapr/Are_predators_to_blame_for_songbird_declines.html
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