|
|
Discussion Forum
Started by richardwinspear at 15 Jun 2009 10:01 AM. Topic has 10 replies.
  
|
|
Sort Posts:
|
|
|
|
 15 Jun 2009, 10:01 AM
|
richardwinspear
Joined on 09 Nov 2005
Posts 131
|
Using chickory to extend life of pollen and nectar mixtures?
|
|
|
|
|
The subject of longevity of pollen and nectar mixtures was topic of discussion at Cereals last week. One farmer suggested chickory as a component that would probably last longer than typical components of such mixtures. Does anyone have any knowledge of this crop being used in mixtures?
|
|
|
|
|
Report
|
|
|
|
|
15 Jun 2009, 5:07 PM
|
Richard Barnes
Joined on 03 Jan 2006
Holbeach, Lincs
Posts 34
|
Re: Using chickory to extend life of pollen and nectar mixtures?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
We have been developing a range of 'alternative' pollen and nectar mixtures over recent years which have had varying levels of perennial chicory included. It is a valuable component as long as levels are kept under control, too much and it will shade out other components.
It can be quite a 'draw' for deer which can be good or bad depending on your perspective. Chicory can be very prolific on poor, thin soils due to its deep tap root but does not like waterlogged sites so bear this in mind when considering potential sites.
We have also found that grass free mixtures have much better persistence particularly on heavy, fertile soils or where persistent grass weeds can be a problem.
Richard Barnes, Kings Game Cover and Conservation Crops
www.kingscrops.co.uk
|
|
|
|
|
Report
|
|
|
|
|
17 Jun 2009, 12:55 PM
|
John
Joined on 13 Nov 2007
Posts 9
|
Re: Using chickory to extend life of pollen and nectar mixtures?
|
|
|
|
|
|
But is it as popular with bees and other insects as red clover and the like?
|
|
|
|
|
Report
|
|
|
|
|
29 Jun 2009, 4:27 PM
|
richardwinspear
Joined on 09 Nov 2005
Posts 131
|
Re: Using chickory to extend life of pollen and nectar mixtures?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Good point John. Spoken to Marek Nowakowski about this, and his view is that you would end up with a worn out mixture with only chickory left in the 5th year, which would not delivery the benefit for bees and other insects that the full legume mix delivers.
|
|
|
|
|
Report
|
|
|
|
|
05 Aug 2009, 5:48 PM
|
meadowmaker
Joined on 14 Mar 2008
Posts 10
|
Re: Using chickory to extend life of pollen and nectar mixtures?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Chicory is a very short lived species and it is pointless including it in a seed mix in my view. If you are lucky it will flower for 2 years, but more likely just one.
Establishing blocks of grassland solely containing source identified British native wild flowers is by far the most sustainable option, providing farmers have the wherewithall to cut and bale the grassland and maybe graze it in the autumn by electric netting it.
The P&N mixes are mainly fodder (EC registered) varieties of clovers, etc. that do not persist much more than 3 years.
Then they have to be ploughed in and resown.
Ploughing creates soil disturbance and carbon emissions.
Ploughing costs money as does the next lot of seed (x 3 in 10 years). Wild flower grassland seed is more expensive on the face of it, but if it is managed properly you only need 10% of mix to be wild flowers and the rest can be grasses. I put together a seed mix of around 16 species for one farmer and it cost him £2000 for 9 hectares. And don't be fooled by the seed merchants who tell you you need to sow it at 40kg/ha. 12kg/ha will do just fine, providing you manage it properly, especially in Year 1 when it is becoming established (it takes 2 years to flower).
The native wild flowers are of course what our pollinators have historically been used to and will use. So will butterflies and other invertebrates, which rely on grasslands as a breeding habitat and not just a feeding station.
Such wild flower grassland will go on forever providing it is managed properly. By establishing it farmers contribute to biodiversity in the wider sense. P&N mixtures are a short term fix that cannot replace the vast areas of wild flower rich grassland that we have lost from the countryside. That is not to say they do not do what they say on the packet.
By the by, just cutting once a year is insufficient - see my other posting on wild flower margins.
Sue Everett
www.meadowmaker.me.uk
See also www.wildmeadows.org.uk
P.S. Always by British native wild flowers from a reputable supplier, ideally from a company that actually grows the stuff. I always buy from Emorsgate Seeds (http://wildseed.co.uk/) who are committed, guarantee stock traceability and know the ecological requirements of the species. Your general seed merchant is unlikely to have this level of knowledge. In fact, probably the opposite and I have had first hand experience of one merchant recommending a totally inappropriate mixture. Scotia Seeds is one of the main growers in Scotland. There are others listed on www.floralocale.org (see 'suppliers')
Sue Everett
www.meadowmaker.me.uk
See also: www.wildmeadows.org.uk and www.floralocale.org
|
|
|
|
|
Report
|
|
|
|
|
07 Aug 2009, 10:57 AM
|
richardwinspear
Joined on 09 Nov 2005
Posts 131
|
Re: Using chickory to extend life of pollen and nectar mixtures?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
07 Aug 2009, 10:42 PM
|
Richard Barnes
Joined on 03 Jan 2006
Holbeach, Lincs
Posts 34
|
Re: Using chickory to extend life of pollen and nectar mixtures?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I am delighted that the website has provoked some vigourous discussion at last - all had gone quiet for a while.
Our trial plots are there for us to evaluate/improve our products and for those who wish to discuss such topics in further detail - I would be delighted to show meadowmaker around.........
Richard Barnes, Kings Game Cover and Conservation Crops
www.kingscrops.co.uk
|
|
|
|
|
Report
|
|
|
|
|
21 Sep 2009, 1:17 PM
|
Richard Barnes
Joined on 03 Jan 2006
Holbeach, Lincs
Posts 34
|
|
|
|
Taken on the 18th September in Essex, very little else in flower due to a prolonged dry period - a coincidence or beneficial plant when used carefully in the right situation..?'
Richard Barnes, Kings Game Cover and Conservation Crops
www.kingscrops.co.uk
|
|
|
|
|
Report
|
|
|
|
|
08 Oct 2009, 9:42 AM
|
Ian Gould
Joined on 20 Dec 2005
Huntingdon
Posts 68
|
|
|
|
Obviously these insects didn't realise that Chicory was "....a non-starter" and useless either Richard.
Taken last week in Northants. (see attached pic)
I read Meadowmakers posts with great interest and I would like to refer her to a very helpful and sensible conversation I had with the excellent staff at Emorsgate last summer. We were discussing the term "Native" and what it really meant, was it always important and did a plant being native always make it the most appropriate. They made the point that a site in Kent might well be more like Holland than say the Yorkshire Moors, but that seed from only one of those places could be called Native to England. I had never really thought about that before, but it does show that being "Native" is not enough on its own.
Emorsgate do what they do extremely well and they should be commended for it. However are we really saying that their quality standards of local provenance, etc are really necessary in order to bring real benefits on the vast majority of farm environment schemes? There are excellent examples of appropriate "Agricultural" varieties being used to great effect on CSS / ELS projects.
I would be the first to use local provenance seed in a sitaution that merited it, Oakbank have gone as far as brush harvesting on one farm (as part of an HLS project), but we also need to consider the availability and cost of some of these options compared to the derived benefit.
It is a difficult balance but we shouldn't write off the benefits that so many low-cost projects have produced.
Ian Gould
www.oakbankgc.co.uk
|
|
|
|
|
Report
|
|
|
|
|
09 Oct 2009, 5:09 PM
|
Richard Barnes
Joined on 03 Jan 2006
Holbeach, Lincs
Posts 34
|
Re: Using chickory to extend life of pollen and nectar mixtures?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks Ian - it is good to see that beneficial insects are using this crop so late in the season in other areas.
It appears that the jury may be out on this particular plant being used as an inclusion in pollen and nectar mixtures - at a relatively low level within a mix I still believe it has benefit when combined with appropriate plant partners in an effort to spread the 'window' of nectar availability.
As an aside, many game managers and some ES agreement holders can provide an extra beneficial source of flower provision away from (or in addition to) the ES pollen and nectar option by using perennial chicory as a straight crop or as a minor inclusion alongside kale in a two year wild bird seed mix.
Richard Barnes, Kings Game Cover and Conservation Crops
www.kingscrops.co.uk
|
|
|
|
|
Report
|
|
|
|
|
|